K40 as B&W: lighting

[Matt Pacini]

Boy, I can't answer your lighting question, but one thing I would suggest, is NOT taking the color out in your transfer, but doing that in software after you digitize.

You will have much more control then, to deal with exactly the kinds of problems you just described.
If you take the color out when you're transferring, there will be nothing you can do if something is lost.

Matt Pacini

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[dogstarman]

OK, so as a follow up to my lighting kit thread...

I'm planning on shooting K40 for a project, and having it processed in the usual way.
However, my intentions are to zap out the color in the video transfer stage and thus my finished project will be B&W.

My question is: should I plan on lighting the project as I would need to if it was going to end up in color, or can I get away with lighting it as if I were shooting B&W stock?

I ask this because I have noticed that, while playing with the +/- color function on my television while I'm watching color films, some things that look really good in color become almost invisible (too dark/ washed out bright) when the color is removed. I'm mostly concerned that if I mix color temps on color film, it might have unexpected results when the color is removed.

Any tips or thoughts on how I should approach this?

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[el don]

i'm not really answering to your question, that's more an "artistic" point of view that i'm giving here. I don't know if you saw the last Cohen brothers movie, "The man who wasn't there". It was shot in color, but released in B/W. The first reason is that the producters and the televisions wanted a color version, just to be sure to have some audience, you know, just a commercial point of view. The second reason is that (in 35mm but i guess it's the same in super8), color negative is faster, more sensible to light, with a sharper grain...So it was technically easier for them to make the movie in color and then "edit" it in B/W.
Roger Deakins, the DP, use exactly the same methods to light the movie that the methods used in the 50's for B/W. That means that you will have to put some light on a black screen, not only light some real setting that will appear on the screen as it is actually. The treatment of shadows and black parts of the room is very important.
I hope you saw the movie and understand what i mean. I don't know if you'll have to use quartz light or just small lamps, but i think using K40 as B/W is a cool odea, i'll probably do the same for my next project, instead of using plus-X, if we can light it with just 1000W torch. Hope someone will help you more than i did.

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[Ronson]

I'm glad this topic came up... I'm considering doing the exact same thing on my next short.

Sometime in the next couple of weeks or so, I'm going to test my new Nizo 4080 with a cart of K-40. One of the series of test shots (of the same subject, with the same lighting) I intend to do would compare:

* color
* color drained to B/W in post
* color shot with B/W filters
* color with B/W filters, drained to B/W in post

Those traditional filters you use in B/W photography to enhance "colors" or shadow detail, like a yellow, dark yellow or red filter, is what I'm thinking of using.

(Probably not the red filter, since you have to add 3 stops of light to get it back to norm.)

I'm curious to see what will happen if I add a dark yellow filter to scene shot with K-40... then drain the color in post.

Will that leave me with greater B/W detail, once I've got a B/W picture?

I hope so, but I don't know.

Anybody else out there ever try this?


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[el don]

i'd like to test those filters too, but my elmo camera doesn't have F-stops (can't wait to get a 5008S!). Using those filters could help a lot, but what kind of lighting will yo use, especially if you try indoor shots? Let us know about the result.

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[Matt Pacini]

I have a feeling it's not going to be as easy as you think, but it's good that you're doing tests.
Certain colors turn out completely differently in B&W than color, and I don't have lots of B&W experience, so I can't really give you detailed explanations of what to do.
But first of all, you have to pay attention to the tone of a color; where it sets in the grayscale, and ignore it's color value.
Maybe the first thing you should do, is shoot some 35mm stills on Kodachrome 40 (or whatever stock you're going to use) scan them, then pull the color out.
It would be cheaper than shooting a bunch of S8 film...

Matt Pacini

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